Gwleidyddiaeth, llyfrau, bywyd, iaith a'r hyn a'r llall. Dim ond ishe gwneud sens o bethe dw i.
Politics, books, life, language and this and that. Just trying to make sense of it all.
Sunday 13 April 2014
UKIP graphic
Another go at displaying that UKIP graphic.
23 comments:
Robbo
said...
Rubbish them as much as you like, Ukip will take more votes in the forthcoming european elections than Plaid Cymru.
Leanne Wood was in denial about UKIP. There is more anti-EU feeling in Wales than in any other part of the UK. Nationalism itself in Wales is anti-immigrant and in a recent poll 17% of Plaid voters said that they would switch to UKIP in the EU elections. This was only marginally less than Tory switchers (18%). There is no doubt that Wales will have UKIP AMs next time. Plaid, Libdem and Tories will all lose regional AMs....and it serves them all right for their "Concensus" politics which allows no opposition voice on important matters like devolution and Welshification.
Anon @18.34 - something to disagree with in every line there. Admittedly the parts of Wales I have canvassed in may not be representative, although they include both urban and rural areas, but I have yet to meet anyone out on the stump who said they would vote for UKIP. It is also obvious from talking to people that those who have thought about it realise that what UKIP stands for is against the national interest of Wales.
Where the figure of 17% of Plaid voters comes from, I don't know, but from my experience Plaid voters are the least likely to give UKIP the time of day.
You must realise Cneifiwr that your personal experience might not be typical of Wales as a whole. There is evidence for what I say. Partly I based it on some analysis done by Prof Scully on the Ashcroft's omnibus surveys of the UK:-
You can also see the percentage of Plaid voters who are anti EU.
Disagree with me all you like but you are bringing no evidence to support your position and, although UKIP has some loathsome characters onboard, they will have AMs at the expense of Plaid next time.
I have voted Plaid for many years. But I am afraid that UKIP will get my vote in the Euro Elections. It is not an anti-Plaid vote, it's because I feel the UK Government in general needs a good shaking up. Only getting UKIP in the lead will do this. There is far too much corruption going on at the moment and present Governing bodies seem loathe to stop it.
Very disappointing to hear that Wavell. The EU is not perfect, but voting for UKIP in protest against corruption is like voting for the Mafia because you're not happy with the forces of law and order.
You still don't get the rise of UKIP in Wales do you Cneifiwr?
The Assembly in Wales takes certain political positions for granted; that Wales "Votes left of centre", that further devolution is popular, that everyone supports Welsh language measures, that the EU is good for Wales and therefore popular in Wales. These are the acknowledged positions of all political parties.
The only problem is that when opinion polls are analysed they come out with: A majority hostile to the EU,a majority wanting less spending on Welsh language measures,a majority against further devolution and only one party's supporters who want fiscal devolution. And, surprise surprise, quite a few Nationalists who are hard right wing. (See Royston Jones).
I am somewhat intrigued by Anon 8.34 yesterday referring to "Welshification". Does he or she not realise that we are living in Wales and that we are already Welsh? Those of us who were born and bred here have no desire for "Englishification" thank you very much.
Anon @08.47 I'll be posting more on this in due course, but I certainly agree that more needs to be done to get the facts across.
Most of the UK press is anti-EU, and you can hardly switch on the BBC these days without seeing Nigel Farage grinning at you.
Put simply the EU is good for Wales because we get a lot more out of it than we put in. How that money is spent is another matter.
I'd also be interested to see how much you think is being spent on the Welsh language.
While you look that up (good luck), here's something to think about. In a public meeting with around 40 participants, 2 people don't understand Welsh. So the council provides a translator for their benefit. Isn't that spending on the English language?
Get in your car and drive around Carmathenshire,you Can see the vast difference between the Have and the Have nothing's.People will voteUKIP ,as it is now they have nothing anyway.The Mississippi of Wales.
Voting UKIP as an 'anti-political' vote is playing with fire. They would be the ruin of Britain and the destruction of Wales. It is scandalous that the BBC gives Farage - the leader of a single-issue party with no MPs and less county councillors than Plaid Cymru - so much publicity. As we remember the outbreak of the Great War, let's also remember that the EU started as a means of stopping future wars between European countries. In this it has succeeded: there were two world Wars in my grandfather's lifetime and none in mine. UKIP's isolationist, jingoistic and militarist attitude takes us back to a dangerous era. There are so many good reasons for not voting for this dangerous faction.
Oh for a box that says "None of the above". So many people cite voting for UKiP to give the major parties a bloody nose.
At least a no e of rhe above box would allow us to do this without wasting our votes on a party that isn't worth vpcpvoting for since it has no policies, no strategies and the battiest leader imaginable.
I prefer the Farage grin to the Madge one. We badly need major rattling of politics in this country and unfortunately Carmarthenshire is a prime example. Also, unfortunately, apathy is abundant amongst voters.
The interesting thing is, Cneifiwr, that the respondents to the ITV/Yougov poll don't know how much Councils spend on Welsh, nor is there a complete figure for all spending on Welsh in every aspect of Welsh life but:-
Whatever the amount, the majority wants LESS spent...in other words it's not a high priority to most people.
As for your example of spending on the English language...not really; what you are witnessing is 38 participants who insist on one of their two languages being used rather than the other. However I would gladly see that small concession (a translator) removed if in every other walk of life where there is a minority of Welsh speakers their minority status meant that no Welsh provision was made.
Some of the above comments make depressing reading. Do the authors understand any facts, have any concern about our country, and by that I mean Wales. Are these home-grown commentators, or refugee incomers, white colonists? If they are the former I despair of my countrymen.
The Scots, the Irish have pride in their culture, their nationality, their 'otherness', and have respect for their respective mother lands. Some of these comments show none of the above, but do demonstrate the inverted arrogance of bigoted monoglot English speakers. I may, as a first language Welsh speaker, be a minority in my own country - I can also speak several other languages - but have no intention of being dictated to by those who have the handicap of being able to express themselves in ONE language only.
Well anon 00.28, polyglot or not, that's democracy I'm afraid.
The truth is (although lately it's been forgotten) that Welsh language measures came into being because of the will of the majority, or at least the absence of opposition.
As things stand now the Welsh language has official, legal status and, at least in law, equality. In this position Welsh speakers no longer need the support of the majority and can (and frequently do) say "We have equality; get over it".
By doing this, and taking their demands for legal equality to demands for functional equality, the 10% of adults who are fluent Welsh speakers are now casting themselves, not as a deserving victimised minority, but as a belligerent and demanding elite.
In doing so they trample wilfully on English Language rights in the name of their minority status or, when possible, in the name of their MAJORITY status. Thus where Welsh speaking parents are a minority they demand Welsh medium schools. Where English speaking parents are a minority, the English schools or streams are closed down...because they are used by a minority who "Don't belong".
As is usual anyone who brings this analysis is "UnWelsh" in the way that Leanne saw UKIP supporters. Nevertheless the tide has turned in so many ways in Wales.
I have to agree with Anon 21.39 and Anon 00.28 - some of these posts make depressing reading. Many - not all - English incomers have no understanding or sympathy with the Welsh language whatsoever and seem to think that English should be spoken everywhere and by everyone at all times. Unfortunately, some of our compatriots think in the same vein if they are non-Welsh-speakers. There must be ways of overcoming these differences of opinion.
I love Wales as a country.yr iaith gymraeg. It's the people that run it that get under my skin,sly,greedy, deceitful,amongst other things,o Gaerdydd I Gaerfyrddin, mae angen newid.
23 comments:
Rubbish them as much as you like, Ukip will take more votes in the forthcoming european elections than Plaid Cymru.
Oh yes, perfect now - deserves its own posting!
Leanne Wood was in denial about UKIP. There is more anti-EU feeling in Wales than in any other part of the UK. Nationalism itself in Wales is anti-immigrant and in a recent poll 17% of Plaid voters said that they would switch to UKIP in the EU elections. This was only marginally less than Tory switchers (18%).
There is no doubt that Wales will have UKIP AMs next time. Plaid, Libdem and Tories will all lose regional AMs....and it serves them all right for their "Concensus" politics which allows no opposition voice on important matters like devolution and Welshification.
Anon @18.34 - something to disagree with in every line there. Admittedly the parts of Wales I have canvassed in may not be representative, although they include both urban and rural areas, but I have yet to meet anyone out on the stump who said they would vote for UKIP. It is also obvious from talking to people that those who have thought about it realise that what UKIP stands for is against the national interest of Wales.
Where the figure of 17% of Plaid voters comes from, I don't know, but from my experience Plaid voters are the least likely to give UKIP the time of day.
You must realise Cneifiwr that your personal experience might not be typical of Wales as a whole. There is evidence for what I say. Partly I based it on some analysis done by Prof Scully on the Ashcroft's omnibus surveys of the UK:-
http://blogs.cardiff.ac.uk/electionsinwales/2014/03/26/lord-ashcrofts-poll-attitudes-to-europe/
And the 17% of Plaid voters (constituency Assembly) who would support UKIP is from the poll that you can see MH referencing here:-
http://syniadau--buildinganindependentwales.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/attacking-ukip.html
You can also see the percentage of Plaid voters who are anti EU.
Disagree with me all you like but you are bringing no evidence to support your position and, although UKIP has some loathsome characters onboard, they will have AMs at the expense of Plaid next time.
Well, those thinking of voting UKIP should study the leaflet above! Anyone contesting the information in it?
I have voted Plaid for many years.
But I am afraid that UKIP will get my vote in the Euro Elections.
It is not an anti-Plaid vote, it's because I feel the UK Government in general needs a good shaking up.
Only getting UKIP in the lead will do this.
There is far too much corruption going on at the moment and present Governing bodies seem loathe to stop it.
Very disappointing to hear that Wavell. The EU is not perfect, but voting for UKIP in protest against corruption is like voting for the Mafia because you're not happy with the forces of law and order.
You still don't get the rise of UKIP in Wales do you Cneifiwr?
The Assembly in Wales takes certain political positions for granted; that Wales "Votes left of centre", that further devolution is popular, that everyone supports Welsh language measures, that the EU is good for Wales and therefore popular in Wales. These are the acknowledged positions of all political parties.
The only problem is that when opinion polls are analysed they come out with: A majority hostile to the EU,a majority wanting less spending on Welsh language measures,a majority against further devolution and only one party's supporters who want fiscal devolution. And, surprise surprise, quite a few Nationalists who are hard right wing. (See Royston Jones).
I am somewhat intrigued by Anon 8.34 yesterday referring to "Welshification". Does he or she not realise that we are living in Wales and that we are already Welsh? Those of us who were born and bred here have no desire for "Englishification" thank you very much.
Anon @08.47 I'll be posting more on this in due course, but I certainly agree that more needs to be done to get the facts across.
Most of the UK press is anti-EU, and you can hardly switch on the BBC these days without seeing Nigel Farage grinning at you.
Put simply the EU is good for Wales because we get a lot more out of it than we put in. How that money is spent is another matter.
I'd also be interested to see how much you think is being spent on the Welsh language.
While you look that up (good luck), here's something to think about. In a public meeting with around 40 participants, 2 people don't understand Welsh. So the council provides a translator for their benefit. Isn't that spending on the English language?
Get in your car and drive around Carmathenshire,you
Can see the vast difference between the Have and the
Have nothing's.People will voteUKIP ,as it is now they
have nothing anyway.The Mississippi of Wales.
Voting UKIP as an 'anti-political' vote is playing with fire. They would be the ruin of Britain and the destruction of Wales. It is scandalous that the BBC gives Farage - the leader of a single-issue party with no MPs and less county councillors than Plaid Cymru - so much publicity. As we remember the outbreak of the Great War, let's also remember that the EU started as a means of stopping future wars between European countries. In this it has succeeded: there were two world Wars in my grandfather's lifetime and none in mine. UKIP's isolationist, jingoistic and militarist attitude takes us back to a dangerous era. There are so many good reasons for not voting for this dangerous faction.
Oh for a box that says "None of the above". So many people cite voting for UKiP to give the major parties a bloody nose.
At least a no e of rhe above box would allow us to do this without wasting our votes on a party that isn't worth vpcpvoting for since it has no policies, no strategies and the battiest leader imaginable.
I prefer the Farage grin to the Madge one.
We badly need major rattling of politics in this country and unfortunately Carmarthenshire is a prime example.
Also, unfortunately, apathy is abundant amongst voters.
If UKIP are that bad they should be at home in the
Kremlin in Carmarthen.
Yn yr etholiad Ewropeaidd fyddaun pleidleisio am UKIP
unrhywfordd.
I have to agree with Anon 16:22
If that ever happens I will dump my Farage idea.
The interesting thing is, Cneifiwr, that the respondents to the ITV/Yougov poll don't know how much Councils spend on Welsh, nor is there a complete figure for all spending on Welsh in every aspect of Welsh life but:-
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/majority-wales-say-welsh-language-6719694
Whatever the amount, the majority wants LESS spent...in other words it's not a high priority to most people.
As for your example of spending on the English language...not really; what you are witnessing is 38 participants who insist on one of their two languages being used rather than the other. However I would gladly see that small concession (a translator) removed if in every other walk of life where there is a minority of Welsh speakers their minority status meant that no Welsh provision was made.
Some of the above comments make depressing reading. Do the authors understand any facts, have any concern about our country, and by that I mean Wales.
Are these home-grown commentators, or refugee incomers, white colonists? If they are the former I despair of my countrymen.
The Scots, the Irish have pride in their culture, their nationality, their 'otherness', and have respect for their respective mother lands.
Some of these comments show none of the above, but do demonstrate the inverted arrogance of bigoted monoglot English speakers.
I may, as a first language Welsh speaker, be a minority in my own country - I can also speak several other languages - but have no intention of being dictated to by those who have the handicap of being able to express themselves in ONE language only.
Well anon 00.28, polyglot or not, that's democracy I'm afraid.
The truth is (although lately it's been forgotten) that Welsh language measures came into being because of the will of the majority, or at least the absence of opposition.
As things stand now the Welsh language has official, legal status and, at least in law, equality. In this position Welsh speakers no longer need the support of the majority and can (and frequently do) say "We have equality; get over it".
By doing this, and taking their demands for legal equality to demands for functional equality, the 10% of adults who are fluent Welsh speakers are now casting themselves, not as a deserving victimised minority, but as a belligerent and demanding elite.
In doing so they trample wilfully on English Language rights in the name of their minority status or, when possible, in the name of their MAJORITY status. Thus where Welsh speaking parents are a minority they demand Welsh medium schools. Where English speaking parents are a minority, the English schools or streams are closed down...because they are used by a minority who "Don't belong".
As is usual anyone who brings this analysis is "UnWelsh" in the way that Leanne saw UKIP supporters. Nevertheless the tide has turned in so many ways in Wales.
I have to agree with Anon 21.39 and Anon 00.28 - some of these posts make depressing reading. Many - not all - English incomers have no understanding or sympathy with the Welsh language whatsoever and seem to think that English should be spoken everywhere and by everyone at all times. Unfortunately, some of our compatriots think in the same vein if they are non-Welsh-speakers.
There must be ways of overcoming these differences of opinion.
I love Wales as a country.yr iaith gymraeg.
It's the people that run it that get under my skin,sly,greedy,
deceitful,amongst other things,o Gaerdydd I Gaerfyrddin,
mae angen newid.
Post a Comment