Tuesday 18 September 2012

Supermarket Sweep Latest - Updated

Update 19 September

The South Wales Guardian carries a forthright opinion piece here. Readers will recall that the newspaper recently got into a spot of bother with the County Council when it carried a report which contained some very mild criticism of the local authority for its management of a regeneration project in Ammanford.

The Carmarthen Journal meanwhile carries a report which gives readers a general outline of the story, but without expressing a view.


At the risk of being called a Plaid mouthpiece (I have been called a lot worse), Jonathan Edwards and Rhodri Glyn Thomas have issued a statement pointing out that, contrary to the accusations made by Kevin Madge, they did not ask for the Sainsbury's application at Cross Hands to be called in. The Cross Hands development, which includes the doctor's surgery, care home, health centre and improvements to Maes yr Yrfa school which Kevin Madge says are now under threat, was called in by Labour minister John Griffiths, and the two Plaid representatives did not raise the matter with the Welsh Government.

They did, however, raise concerns about aspects of the proposed development of a Sainsbury's store at Llandeilo in response to representations made by constituents.

For all you Welsh learners out there, today's phrase is "cawl potsh", as in "Mae Kev wedi gwneud cawl potsh o bopeth".


The council has now responded to the invitation to Kevin Madge to take part in a radio discussion today by issuing the stock reply that "no one is available", which suggests that perhaps the matter was not quite as important or urgent as the council has been claiming.


The row over the Welsh Government's decision to call in two planning applications for new Sainsbury's stores in Llandeilo and Cross Hands continues to rumble on, with BBC Wales reporting this morning that Kevin Madge, the Labour council leader, has now criticised the Welsh Government for jeopardising jobs, presumably after someone pointed out to him that its was a Labour minister who actually called the applications in, rather than Plaid Cymru.

Meanwhile, Rhodri Glyn Thomas AM has published a letter challenging Kev to a public debate, and to make matters worse for our leader, BBC Cymru has stuck its ore in and invited Jonathan Edwards MP to take part in a discussion on the phone-in programme Taro'r Post later today. Jonathan has agreed to take part if the council leader does.

There will be those who say that this is unfair to Kev because his Welsh is not that strong, but then neither is his English. Having listened to him in both languages, I can honestly say that there is nothing to choose between them.

Carmarthenshire County Council hates it when anyone questions any of its acts or decisions, and it normally brands those who do as belonging to a tiny and unrepresentative minority bent on undermining some visionary scheme or other. These attacks are often accompanied with legal threats to pursue the miscreants for costs through the courts, while the Press Office goes into action to accuse the perpetrators of putting jobs, children's welfare and the well-being of the sick and elderly at risk.

The only thing missing so far, then, is an accusation that our MP and Assembly Member are part of some unrepresentative minority of malcontents, although the claim in the council's press release that the two schemes had "overwhelming support" from the public came close.

The Welsh Government's letter explaining its decision contained the following observation:

"In our view there is insufficient information in these respects [cumulative impact on retail trade in the area] to show that all policy considerations have been fully addressed by Carmarthenshire County Council's Planning Committee in reaching its decision on these applications"

For students of the planning regime in Carmarthen, saying that the Planning Committee may not have considered the issues properly is akin to saying that bears have been known to relieve themselves in the woods.

Two Labour councillors in particular became well-known in recent years for routinely proposing and seconding any planning application recommended for approval by the officers at the drop of a hat. On one occasion they misinterpreted a pause in the officer's opening remarks to propose and second a vote, and had to be gently reminded that it was customary to allow (a) the officer to finish and (b) questions and discussion of the application by members of the committee.

If you exercise your right as a member of the public to speak in a planning meeting (only two people are allowed to speak either for or against for a maximum of 5 minutes), the experience can be nerve racking for anyone not used to public speaking. Add to that the glares you will get from representatives of the opposite side, and in controversial applications, the presence of the press, and you need nerves of steel.

To make matters worse, you can expect barracking from the chair or the professional officers on occasion. A friend of mine began his opening remarks by pointing out that this was a complex case, and that it would be difficult to do justice to it in just 5 minutes. Whereupon he was interrupted by the council's legal officer who told him he had better get on with it then.

A serving councillor recounted attending a training session for members of the Planning Committee where some of the old boys nominated by the Independents were manifestly mentally unfit to decide anything, leave alone grapple with the finer points of planning.

If you go to a planning meeting, you will also find, especially when a controversial application is up for decision, that the discussion which takes place usually bears no relation to the outcome of the vote. On one memorable occasion, quite a few members of the committee spoke, and all but one spoke against the application. When it came to a vote, however, councillors who had sat silently throughout, neither voicing an opinion nor asking for clarification, voted in favour, and the plan was passed by a small majority.

No wonder public cynicism about the planning system is so widespread.

To end on a more positive note, it is worth emphasising that there are councillors on the planning committee who take their role seriously and go to great pains to dig into the detail. We need more like that.


Anonymous said...

What do you think of the report findings commissioned by John Griffiths AM that there was no need for a separate Planning Inspectorate for Wales? I haven't seen much of this in the Welsh media. Any thoughts?

Cneifiwr said...

Could you provide a link to where he said that? As you probably know, we have a sort of halfway house at the moment.

Anonymous said...

Has all this got anything to do with inbreeding slugs and Dueling Banjos and the cover of last weeks South Wales Guardian.

Not very good media spin for either side.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

I read your blog with interest and find your stories and opinions interesting, however have recently began to find your comments regarding a certain county councillor unjustified. Politics is a nasty game and many wouldn’t want to get involved at any level. It’s easy to personally attack someone when there can be no come back on yourself but maybe you should take a minute and ask yourself if you would like the job. I like yourself am a proud Welshman and I have been a plaid Cymru supporter for many years however I feel let down by our AM as well as MP. I have a daughter who has recently graduated as a teacher but is unable to find work and the promise of 600 jobs is something that should be fought for. Maybe if you shared a more unbiased view I would continue to read however it’s apparent that your blog has become a propaganda tool for Plaid Cymru. It’s a shame that most of the entries you have written recently have been nasty attacks on kev because it’s altered by view point on Cneifiwr (who ever he may be)

Cneifiwr said...

I'm sorry to hear that. I only write about what I believe in. Personally I think that Kevin Madge is a decent man and probably good company over a pint. He is a very experienced political operator, but he is also out of his depth as leader of the county council. He's not doing himself or the rest of us any favours in the top job.

Anonymous said...

The promise of 600 jobs. And that at the expense of how many other jobs with the closing down of smaller businesses who use local accountants, solicitors and who recirculate the money they receive in their local communities. I hope that Plaid Cymru and other parties stand up to the multinationals but there's little hope of that with Labour being given money by the owner of Sainsburys. As much a better political party that Plaid are in comparison to Labour.....I was disappointed when they supported Tescos in neighbouring Ceredigion.

Anonymous said...

I thought the BBC report was rather one-sided, siding with the development.

Anonymous said...

I'm confused...

what's the difference between asking for the application to be called in, and 'representing the views of constituents'? are they in favour of the developments or not? A simple yes/no answer from RGT and JE would suffice.

It seems to me that both sides have a way of spinning what they mean.

Anonymous said...

why do companys promise x amount of jobs? it is irresponsible to do it. ammanford tesco said 100 new jobs due to expansion. were there? no/ pontardulais proclaimed 294 jobs? did they? no. not even half.

i could go back as far as 1998 with mitsui in capel hendre, they proclaimed over 300 jobs.. did they? no

you are not the only one who has been let down by am and mp if you're a plaid supporter. doesn't make senses does it? then again, labour supporters have been let down by their counterparts so that doesn't make sense to them too.

cneifwr is right up to a point, but k.madge does seem to be out of his depth. probably he is alright to have a pint over, but he has ignored issues in the past and makes excuses to get away from something when things are wrong. standoffish, naive maybe.

what we like is people who want to work together for a slightly better way off life for all, instead of keeping people in the doldrums.

But don't forget, carmarthenshire wants to be the best. the best county in wales. they want to push forward via business and when you have politicians and people jumping on that bandwagon, there is no turning back and anyone who dares criticize the motives is assumed troublesome and an agitator.

if you don't see things from their perspective, you are outside the circle. and one day they are going to realise that they have come to the end of their bubble as there is only so much you can build. You run out of space eventually, and the only the only ay they can survive is to destroy what was already there, tear it down so they can fit in the new.

Like i mentioned before, if life was perfect, there would be room for sainsbury or a morrison here and there. but it's not simple, is it? the system will eat itself up.

It would give me pleasure to cater for the folk of llandeilo to ease their burden of expensive food BUT at the same time, how would i cater for the pre-existing shops.
Do i give with one hand and take with the other? or do i look after the people with the shops and stuff the less well off?

i cannot guarentee that no small shops in llandeilo town will not suffer, but i would say the existing supermarkets will lose some trade. how much as a percentage will be almost impossible to get an accurate figure at this stage. They can have as many surveys as they like but nobody will know the exact figure until it gets built.

I don't like stories or scaremongering when people say it will turn llandeilo into a ghost town. I cannot do that as it would be playing on fear. I understand the danger of it, if it turns into a ghost town, the tourists won't come anymore. There will be a knock on effect whichever way it's looked at ranging from newspaper sales down to the butcher. The easiest way to quell the danger is by opposing the application full stop. If ck supermarket or the co-op closed, surely another business may move into the premises? (a2)

Anonymous said...

which goes back to the original question. if ck and the co-op were charging more, there is only a limited amount the consumer can pay. if someone can save £5 each, they will try. if food goes up £5 each, an employer is hardly likely to give them the extra £5 in pay. And if they did, the services also go up to compensate and it's a vicious circle all round.

If someone is say self employed and their food bill goes up £20 a week, they are going to have to put up their rates by the same amount to keep up. if someone is working in a factory, they are not in the same position to put up their pay. And it's always the people on the lower end who will suffer. if a self employed or business owner taking home £400 or more a week, they don't mind paying a little bit more at ck or the co-op.

If ck had the same purchasing power as the bigger boys, then ck would offer the public a reduced price and there be no need for a sainsbury.

If ck are making money, why aren't they employing? same with co-op.

personally, i seldom go to the co-op as it is expensive. i only go there now on the off chance in case they have got an offer on.
years ago, everbody shopped at the co-op because of the principle of what it was, redistributing money back into the system, paying producers et al (a2)

Cneifiwr said...

Anon @15.37 It's safe to say that asking for a call-in and representing constituents' views are the same in this case. If Jonathan Edwards and Rhodri Glyn Thomas had done nothing, the development in Llandeilo would have gone ahead under the terms and conditions agreed by the council and Sainsbury's. What will happen now is that the Welsh Government will take another look at it. They may decide everything is OK, or they may hand it to over to the Planning Inspectorate, which will then decide on the application.

It's a bit like asking for a second opinion, but there is still no guarantee that the we will get one.

Anonymous said...

Given all that has come out in public over the past few days it surely doesn't matter whether our AM or MP support the applications or not - the fact is that their constituents asked them to do a job and they did it. How often do we hear about politicians saying one thing and doing another? In this case the Plaid duo have done what was asked.

I also think today's revelation -that they didn't ask for the Cross Hands proposal to be called in -demonstrates that our AM and MP genuinely do listen to what the community wants. There seems to be a general concensus that the cross hands development was welcome in the community, and I guess that's why they didn't ask for it to be called in like the Llandeilo application.

Seeing the response from the Welsh government minister suggests the action they took has merit.

Two politicians did exactly what they were elected to do. Brilliant!

Anonymous said...

who called it in then or did nobody contact a minister? or did a minister decide b@lls to this, i'll have a look at this

some harsh words in the c.j - local authority giving information to the planning committee that was riddled with irregularities,the councillors could not possibly know what they were voting for as the information supplied was substandard and deficient in many respects.

the action group took their case to the welsh assembly.

the planning application was radically different from the original plan submitted... planning officers showing the wrong plan at the meeting and gave different figures for the amount of floorspace.

so easy to forget some things from 5 months ago. time goes quick too (a2)

Anonymous said...

The council's planning committee is expected to consider the application for the site bordering the A40 road east of Llandeilo on Thursday, March 29, although previous dates for the decision had been held up, reportedly because of discussions between the county council and Welsh Government.

so, they had discussions with the welsh office, accepted the application and it got called in after the welsh office were kept informed....how odd (a2)

Anonymous said...

ah, william powell am mid and west wales

funny how k.madge didn't know about this (a2)

Anonymous said...

ok, there was an action group in llandeilo amongst other parties holding meetings, protests and discussions. we all know that because it's been in the public eye for quite a while.

regarding crosshands, it all seemed pretty quiet....until now.

what's gone wrong? if it was called in before mid july, how come it's only surfaced now some 2 months later? someone has contacted someone that ends up with john griffiths. the llandeilo one was through mr powell.

Could it be possible that because of what's happened with llandeilo, they decided to look at crosshands without the need for anybody to contact them? If mr griffiths recognised something was up with llandeilo, he may have assumed something was up with crosshands as well.. after all, ccc were in discussions with the welsh office prior to the rubber stamp as it was deferred the month before.

if crosshands was called in because of llandeilo, is this possible? if it is, maybe that's why k.madge had his goat up because he implicated plaid that way because of the plaid involvement with llandeilo... just a thought. otherwise no idea who else suggested to have it called it in. unless there is more to it.

the only other issues with crosshands were traffic and possible flooding. plus the retail impact assessment(a2)

Anonymous said...

@ anon 12:35 - I am sure that anyone would welcome the creation of 600 new jobs but sadly it would appear that despite promises, Sainsbury's do not come up with the goods (pardon the pun) - Sainsbury's pledged 15,000 jobs, but in the three years to 2011 only 800 jobs had been added.

Anonymous said...

it looks like nobody motioned to call in the crosshands app. why? if llandeilo gets called in because of this shop directive, the other gets called in too, even if there is nothing wrong with the crosshands one - routine..

let's have a closer look at the llandeilo situation.
obviously there have always been concerns there from day one.
sainsbury say 83% approved of the plans at the exhibition - all depending on how many actually turned up.
secondly, the town council suggested they do their own door to door survey.

messrs thomas and edwards were contact as that would be pretty rotine by concerned business folk and protestors...
if plaid were concerned about llandeilo, why didn't they equest it to be called in themselves?
were they seen by the anti sainsbury team as non concerners?

so, move onto the role of the libdem AM for midwest and west wales, mr powell.
someone had to approach him initially, unless there is some rule that allows him to look at an issue because he just happened to read about it and got concerned about the 'rumours'...

it makes no sense at all for plaid NOT to call it in, and plaid later contacted mr powell who then in turn contacted mr griffiths.

unless plaid didn't want to get their hands dirty and were happy to let somebody else do the work.

why are plaid concerned about the app now but weren't then? that is problematic.

plaid had concerns with llandeilo and they could have dealt with it themselves.

so, the situation has evolved round to public labelling. It is wrong that the council still has that press release on the website, an if anything, it is condoning lies and libel.

all of this has evolved by the councils b@lls up in the first place. kamikaze springs to mind or russian roulette with llandeilo being used as the single bullet.

llandeilo seems to be a pawn in this game.. using a small fish to catch a bigger fish - crosshands.

if sainsbury decide to ups sticks from crosshands if llandeilo gets turned down, who is to blame for that? the council.

if crosshands gets turned down and llandeilo gets approved, who's to blame for it? hmm. people will be looking at the council if it goes worse than anticipated, and the would be seen as the party that caused the shops to close and lead to the demise of the tourism side.

what have the council got to lose if llandeilo got turned down? not much.

what have the council got to lose if crosshands gets turned down? i let the people decide on that one. credibility to start with.

it wasn't long ago that sainsbury denied they were looking at crosshands. from day one they have always been known they were looking at llandeilo... why?

crosshands relies on the supermarket to start with.. actually, the construction firm has more of the interest.
if they don't get the supermarket, will the houses, school, health centre and nusrsing home get done?

(anonymous 2) (a2)

Anonymous said...

probably cneifwr be able to answer this. newcastle emlyn is around the same populate as llandeilo, a similar background. when ckcame there in the early 90s. what was the feel then? actually i got it a bit wrong, ck came to llandeilo later than i thought - 1988.

people go to carmarthen (16miles) or cardigan (8miles) to do their shop. which is similar to some llandeilo folk going to ammanford (8miles).. 16 miles for a shop seems to be an extreme, but if some people are travelling from llandeilo to carmarthen, or cross hands to llanelli or carmarthen which are 5 miles less.. or crosshands to ammanford (6 miles)..

i don't know where newcastle emlyn are with the tesco application. as i was mentioning, that is a similar populate to llandeilo, with two existing stores, ck and spar. the only difference is that llandeilo has the co-op as well.

i had a look at the website and gives the impression that all supermarkets are not welcome - ranging from asda, tesco. even lidl and the co-op are marked down as public enemies.

depending on a locality, maybe an attitude is different in industrial/rural town? (a2)

Anonymous said...

without going too much into the history of foodstores, someone won't like it it when someone is too dominent. people do need to go somewhere to buy food.
it would be easy to say that ck holds a monopoly in new/emlyn.
I don't know exactly how much local produce they sell, whether it's eggs, meat, veg, milk,cheese,butter. ah they do sell welsh milk. as for the rest of the items, it'll be impossible to source local produce such as cereals,pasta,soup and other general products.
then again, local produce can mean anything up to 100 miles so that's hardly local.

i don't know exactly what's been going on in nearby cardigan, but didn't they have a kwiksave there in the mid 80's? did kwiksave improve the town or demise?

carmarthen had a kwiksave and that was in the middle of the town, llamas street, but they moved down to pensarn before their eventual demise.

through the year 2000's, people did not like the prospect of tescopoly or tescotown.

is it a question of protecting a town come what may or simply saying no to the thought of a tescotown or an asdatown?

when tesco came to ammanford, it was generally accepted, especially when the town got regenerated in 1996. it felt a bit strange as it was a bit out of the way, even if it was about 500 metres. people still went to kwiksave and somerfield. not much really changed in the town. whether it was tesco that got somerfield closed down or general trading conditions as a whole in the uk that affected all stores. kwiksave was basically the same look, even the same door from the 80s, and they had a refurbishment. then somefield took them over and eventually left again.

some people have said tesco has ruined pontardawe, a town 14 miles away towards neath.

th tesco ammanford had was the right size. but they decided to rebuild last year. It is too big for ammanford. waste of a building as it's high and when you look up, there is a lot of open space, so really it isn't that much bigger than the old one. and that's what's mucked things up. BIG.
Yes it's going back to the old problem, parking charges - council does have a part to play on that matter. carparking charges didn't come to ammanford until around 2005 so up until then, things weren't too bad. Soon as they introduced them, more people went over to tesco but they coincided with the closing of somerfield.. even the co-op had a refurb that saw it's store size cut in half in 2008, now a large expensive convenience store.

a few ex kwiksave stores became home bargains, which seemed to have some items cheaper than the supermarket.

If the co-op didn't have an adverse affect in llandeilo, wouldn't it apply the same to newc/emlyn?

i used to kind of like the old ammanford tesco but can't stand the new one. it's out of proportion and a year and a month later, i still don't feel comfy.
i only go there because the co-op don't sell one item i buy from there.

a shop that is too big will have an effect. but it would be of an interest if ck had any affect in the beginning. Everybody who was born after 1970 won't really know much about the evolution.
But it has to be admitted that even the co-op had a form of a monopoly at one time. You had co-op stores all over the country, even in villages.

I like buying a pint of milk for 48p but i don't like it if it causing a farmer to suffer.
Bit at the same time i don't like paying 60p for a pint of milk if it was a spar or a londis that meant paying more to the shopkeeper unecessarily. who is to blame for that? council tax, business rates? Then again a supermarket has business rates (a2)

Cneifiwr said...

Thanks Anon. The situation in Newcastle Emlyn is that we have a CKs, Co-op (was Somerfield) and Spar. The Co-op is fairly small, and is always busy. The bulk of people shopping out of town go to Cardigan more than Carmarthen.

Two planning applications for supermarkets (a Lidl and one unknown) were approved. Lidl pulled out, and there is no sign of either site being developed.

The town does have a good range of independent shops, but some are struggling. The bakery just closed.

The reality is that there is not enough business in the town to sustain another supermarket, and the supermarkets know that. Perhaps the best thing would be for the Co-op to move into larger premises and soak up some of the trade now going to Cardigan.

Anonymous said...

cneifwr, where is the co-op?

talking of the co-op, i went to ammanford for a browse, armed with a pen and paper jotting down various items..
6 items out of random and compare them to tesco and sainsbury - £1.80more expensive. other things across the board at the co-op like kellogs cornflakes 10p difference,20p that kind of thing.

have tesco pulled out from new/emlyn?

the other day i popped into tesco express in swansea, higher prices than a normal supermarket. 10p/20p here and there (a2)

Anonymous said...

sorry cneifwr, i had no idea there is a co-op in new/emlyn.

that is the same predicament as Llandeilo with similar populate, similar background, and some people migrating to the next town with a similar distance.

pontardulais under swansea council is sslightly larger than ammanford and crosshands has independent shops, some parts a bit run dwon and they only had co-op and spar until last year. people from there were going to fforestfach tesco extra which is around 6 miles away.
That's the one they said 298 jobs coming, and the manager admitted that less than half were employed.
The one that is struggling is the small convenience store, people are still going to the co-op, most probably out of loyalty i guess.

then again, i noticed some items at tesco have gone up this week.. the tesco value range has jumped up from £2.40 to £2.80 - 13% rise (a2)

Cneifiwr said...

The Co-op is in the main shopping street (Sycamore Street).

The site you refer to is owned partly by a local businessman, and partly by the County Council. It was never revealed who, if anybody, was actually interested in opening a supermarket there. Lots of people assumed it would be Tesco, but so far nobody has put their head over the parapet.

Anonymous said...

would it be less of a blow if sainsbury bought the co-op building or ck?
or is there a divine dislike of tesco etc full stop?

where do shopkeepers shop?

at the end of the day, it's always going to problematic. a nation needs feeding. if feed goes up, the farmer puts up the prices,then the shop puts it up. if the shop puts it up, that person has to find the excess from somewhere so services and wages go up.
if a food processing plant goes up, the supermarket price goes up.. if fuel goes up, the shop goes up and on it goes..

at the end of the day, someone will be offering the role of the seller whatever happens. the consumer is always there but
who starts the ball rolling?

i wouldn't like to estimate how many llandeilo people are in the figure of deprived as mentioned by a town councillor, and that's why they suuport the application.
Life would be ideal forever if towns survived on co-ops and ck's as long as the price was right and there was sustainabilty. That's the rule wherever people are.

Llandeilo isn't as affluent as it was especially since the closure of the creamery nearly ten years ago now. What gets me is ck and the co-op don't seem to give a hoot that people travel to ammanford tesco rather than keeping the money in the town. So why are they shouting now when under threat from sainsbury?
If it's a case of they can't supply or compete, they let it go.
I don't know if it's the same over there with you.

if two in ten go to ammanford, if sainsbury comes to llandeilo, thise 2 out of ten will go there instead.. but it may drag another two out of ten down there with them. and that's what they are shouting about. if ck and the co-op cannot bring their prices down, that would be fair enough. As long as they give it a go. Or are they fighting with two hands tied behind their back?

tesco do token gestures trying to source local products. small items such as welsh butter, calon lan milk, miners butter. and others are catching on. why the welsh products are a little bit more costly is another matter.
It's impossible to have all items in a store that is sourced locally 100%. we rely on others to produce.

if llandeilo had a 50/50 split on affluence/poverty, who do you support? the aflluent want to keep things as they are and keep the local shops open come what may and sod the rest, and at the same time the other 50% need to live a bit more comfortable especially one they have little control of.

if a shopkeepers 40 hour week wage of say £400 a week drops down to £380, they still live ok.. if a 40 hour week worker's food bill goes up £20, they can't find that extra money (a2)

a2 said...

i just been reading the ccc site. accrding to their figures, 80% of the floor area would be dedicated to the sale of convenience goods and 20% comparison goods.

WYG anticipate that the Sainsbury’s draw (convenience and comparison goods) will predominantly come from main food stores in Carmarthen (26%), the Co-op in Llandovery (18%), the Co-op in Llandeilo (17%) and food stores (presumably Tesco) in Ammanford (13%)

1 in 10 fo to ammanford and 2 in 10go to carmarthen... why isn't ck down? not forgetting the populate of llandeilo is a little over 2,000, 26 in 100 go to carmarthen, 260every 1000 and that's your lot.
13 in every 100 go to ammanford,
130 in 1000

what these don't say is the frequency. if you round it down to 1 in 10, that doesn't sound bad. 2 in 10 migrating is a slight concern. But they will see it as 3 in 10 go to ammanford and carmarthen. the combined figure will be 39%. according to their figures 57% shop outside llandeilo.. obviuosly it's for a reason - and if the sole reason is finance that it is cheaper, then ck is pricier.. then again, i don't quite grasp the idea of llandeilo folk going to llandovery co-op when there is a co-op in llandeilo unless llandovery co-op has a bit more choice, 26 miles round trip around £3-£4 fuel

a2 said...

someone who goes to llandovery co-op may well just work in the town, but for whatever reason, it is down on the report.
A door to door town council didn't take place,there were two meetings at the angel instead.
If it could been surveyed, that would give a truer picture. As anyone's guess could be it's split down the middle 50/50. even a public 'inquiry' won't be able to fit over 1000 into the civic hall if it came down to the inspectorate. if that hall holds 200 people, does that represent everybody? As far as i can see, it could be split 4 ways. 40% for it, 20% against it on ecological and possible planning flaws and pollution, 15% against it because it could close down ck/co-op and 25% against if it affects the other shops and spoils the feel of the town... when you pit the opposition against the for, it outweighs it. If more than 50% want it, they are stuffed. If more than 50% don't want it, then it's obvious there is something going on in planning. but if 13% go to ammanford and 23% go to carmarthen (18% on average and take out the 18% from the 40% who want it as that may not affect them so much as thought as they were already doing this. How much of a hardship it costs them is unknown). I wouldn't like to be the person whose shoulders the fate of the town lays on, a fine line. Not an easy job at all