tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post285003998840528949..comments2023-05-08T10:46:34.371+01:00Comments on Y Cneifiwr: Council crisis: Stepping asideUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-49581647880351414432014-02-16T18:22:52.758+00:002014-02-16T18:22:52.758+00:00As I said, I would not have left the meeting. You ...As I said, I would not have left the meeting. You have to make a stand at times and stick to your guns - it's called guts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-84788790873771731552014-02-16T08:34:58.296+00:002014-02-16T08:34:58.296+00:00AN URGENT AMENDMENT TO CARMARTHENSHIRE COUNCIL'...AN URGENT AMENDMENT TO CARMARTHENSHIRE COUNCIL'S DISCIPLINARY POLICY -<br /> <br />From 14th February 2014 any employee subject to a police investigation within the council shall be subject to the following disciplinary sanctions -<br /> <br />1. They will be allowed to write a press release protesting innocence in advance of the police undertaking a formal investigation of said employee.<br /> <br />2. The full weight of the councils HR and Legal expertise will be placed at the employees disposal.<br /> <br />3.They will be ever so politely requested to spend less time within the council "mutually agreed" with the Executive board. It is however deemed reasonable that said members of that board (particularly from the Trimsaran Ward) shall actively keep the employee fully up to date with all developments of the police investigation.<br /> <br />4. The employee will have full access to the councils IT system and may feel free to destroy any E Mails that show the employee in a less favourable light.<br /> <br />5. The employee will not be suspended but take a "investigation sabbatical" with full pay and be granted an indemnity to fight any moves by the council to sanction him. (Please note as recognised by the WAO the new policy only applies to men although dispensation will be made for the monitoring officer)<br /> <br />6. That the employee be allowed to accumulate full leave provisions in addition to potentially unlimited time off for the "investigation sabbatical".<br /> <br />7. That work related to election duties are a dispensation particularly in order to raise staff morale when said employee performs the Welsh Language at the count.<br /> <br />8. That provision be made for a big party if said employee returns to work to be held in an appropriately sized local phone box.<br /> <br />9. It should be noted that this is a time limited policy. Whilst it obviously applies to all council employees to trigger its commencement you must earn £170,000 or over.<br /><br />10. The policy can only be sanctioned by the councils statutory Head of Paid Service - Mr Mark James<br /><br />Signed in the presence of Councillor Kevin Madge "Leader" of the CouncilAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-13909570161472588462014-02-15T23:57:20.283+00:002014-02-15T23:57:20.283+00:00If you were NOT predisposed to disagree with acts ...If you were NOT predisposed to disagree with acts you believed to be unlawful then you would be predisposed to agree with them. The QCs i tervention was just plain scare- mongering with absolutely no badis in law.<br /><br />The only CRIMINAL act a councillor can be guilty of is failing to disclose a pecuniary interest. All other matters are civil matters and would be dealt with in a civil court.<br /><br />Who would prosecute them? Why, their own council! Anothet job for an ambulance-chasing QC perhaps. Snd can you see the furore of po,ice being callec by the Minitoring Officer to arrest a large number of councillors!<br /><br />This just gets sillier and sillier Mr Madge. Time to go.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-29954769812468863542014-02-15T23:06:14.588+00:002014-02-15T23:06:14.588+00:00Looks like Mr Kerr QC will be given the opportunit...Looks like Mr Kerr QC will be given the opportunity to make another easy £6,000 or £8,000 by spending a few hours at the Carmarthenshire Extraordinary meeting as well!<br /><br />Presumably the brown envelope trick won't be used again but he could still try frightening councillors with the pre-disposition/pre-determination waffle stuff, ably backed - as in Pembrokeshire - by a compliant monitoring officer.<br /><br />Will the Opposition Group be allowed to employ a QC at taxpayers' expense in order to counteract Mr Kerr's "expert advice"?Catherinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-56664871884889698032014-02-15T22:28:28.675+00:002014-02-15T22:28:28.675+00:00Many commentators have reached the conclusion that...Many commentators have reached the conclusion that this so-called "stepping aside" is yet another example of the kind of self-serving and perverse decision-making that typifies the current administration.<br /><br />It is neither one thing or the other, and does not let the Executive Board off the hook. What little confidence the public had in the Board before, must now be fast ebbing away. <br /><br />A vote of no confidence in the whole shower is much needed. Mr Kerr's "predetermination" gambit seems to me to be over-hyped. I cannot pretend to possess his legal acuity or knowledge of case law. But a quick Google of the subject brings up a host of cases where the courts have been at pains to distinguish between pre-disposition and pre-determination.<br /><br />The shabby "envelope of evidence" indicated no more than a pre-disposition, which, in the face of a watchdog's finding of unlawful decision-making, must give rise to such a pre-disposition of no confidence in those who made such unlawful decisions.<br /><br />Friday's Council meeting in Pembrokeshire must have given Mr Kerr one of his easiest days ever as an advocate - laying down the law to lay-people, without even a trainee solicitor to offer an opposing view. Trebles all round! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-69981457778274183582014-02-15T21:30:29.474+00:002014-02-15T21:30:29.474+00:00There is one heck of a difference between suspensi...There is one heck of a difference between suspension and just standing down voluntarily.<br />Suspension according to CCC rules is the only and proper way to do things.<br />If we do not push Mr.Madge to suspend Mr.James there could (will) be major problems in the future pipeline.<br />"Somebody" is surely aware of this !!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-26040331941445196632014-02-15T17:46:20.127+00:002014-02-15T17:46:20.127+00:00How do you sack him, if he is proved to have done ...How do you sack him, if he is proved to have done something illegal, when he has not been suspended? Summary dismissal? He then goes for compensation because he wasn't suspended!<br /><br />You truy could not make this up. Oh, yes you could - Yes Minister.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-84513298470342041972014-02-15T17:37:25.740+00:002014-02-15T17:37:25.740+00:00I think if I had been in the shoes of those Pembro...I think if I had been in the shoes of those Pembrokeshire Councillors, I would have stood my ground and not left the Chamber.<br />Doubt whether all of them would be reported for breaching the code of conduct on such a technicality. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-60085113701376258932014-02-15T17:05:34.499+00:002014-02-15T17:05:34.499+00:00Anon @15.03 I think the motion of no confidence wi...Anon @15.03 I think the motion of no confidence will be presented at the meeting on 27 February. In the meantime I hope everyone will encourage everybody they know to sign the online petition here:<br /><br />http://www.rhodriglynthomas.org/petitions<br /><br />The word coming out of County Hall was that it was all just headlines and the public would soon forget. Show Kevin what you think!Cneifiwrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08767078276794410524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-37535816514126108852014-02-15T16:15:20.086+00:002014-02-15T16:15:20.086+00:00@ anon 12:09 and Cneifiwr. Given that CCC have not...@ anon 12:09 and Cneifiwr. Given that CCC have not suspended Mark James then as far as I am aware there is no contractual obligation to PAY Mark James for HIS decision to stand down! In respect of the other questions of "will he have access to council employees, the IT system" etc, from a contractual point of view the answer is YES. Think of it as an employee taking a sabbatical. The only difference is that the majority of employees in CCC would not be paid. <br /> <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-90834777286458751972014-02-15T15:17:00.586+00:002014-02-15T15:17:00.586+00:00Perhaps the opposition should also move that he is...Perhaps the opposition should also move that he is formally suspended, along with the legal officer, just to ensure that these... put kindly... possible ambiguities in his status... are removed. If he still has access to council IT systems, colleagues etc then he's not de-facto suspended at all. It may in fact be that he is de-facto suspended, with the 'voluntary' thing merely being a fig-leaf covering the situation, but given the suspicion that he runs the whole shooting match, it seems prudent for councillors to make sure that he is definitely suspended, no? Ken Haylockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02298100658896511024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-61178570260344704092014-02-15T15:09:00.990+00:002014-02-15T15:09:00.990+00:00What if the investigation does, as it may well, ta...What if the investigation does, as it may well, take longer than the two month period? Can he 'step aside' for an unlimited period? And what are the positions of other senior officers who are involved in the issues under investigation, such as the head of legal services and monitoring officer? As a matter of procedure,surely all senior officers who have had direct involvement in the payments issue should stand aside during the investigation, not just the recipient of the payments?Mrs Angryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00586223909475832791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-37899174155720591082014-02-15T15:03:25.015+00:002014-02-15T15:03:25.015+00:00Do you know Cneifiwr if Plaid are going to continu...Do you know Cneifiwr if Plaid are going to continue with their vote of no confidence against the 3 Executive board members on Monday?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-30304390840866079742014-02-15T14:46:48.228+00:002014-02-15T14:46:48.228+00:00The WAO ought to have something to say about payin...The WAO ought to have something to say about paying someone handsomely to stay away from work. It seems highly improper. What authority does the Council have that allows it to waste public money in this way? The sums involved will soon add up to rather more than the payments the WAO identified as unlawful. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-39681497403860844352014-02-15T14:36:53.912+00:002014-02-15T14:36:53.912+00:00Handcuff leave?Handcuff leave?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-50088980788021994472014-02-15T14:00:06.519+00:002014-02-15T14:00:06.519+00:00Anon @ 12.09 Those are all very good questions. I...Anon @ 12.09 Those are all very good questions. I don't think there is really a term for someone agreeing not to come to work without being suspended.<br /><br />Perhaps we will find out more next week.Cneifiwrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08767078276794410524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-29373166604508052502014-02-15T12:34:52.008+00:002014-02-15T12:34:52.008+00:00Anon 7.48
I agree with you the brown envelope tri...Anon 7.48<br /><br />I agree with you the brown envelope trick can only be used once, but have they got any more 'tricks' up their sleeves?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-66364117756929589262014-02-15T12:09:54.683+00:002014-02-15T12:09:54.683+00:00This is very curious. On your previous post you me...This is very curious. On your previous post you mentioned that this was gardening leave. I don't think it is, The definition of that is when an employee gives an employer notice, or an employee resigns, but they are sent home or told to stay away from work for the duration of their notice period on full pay.This seems much more like James basically giving a verbal commitment that he will not be in work whilst the police are poking around Jail Hill. Does this mean for example that he will retain access to council employees, the IT system and could actually walk into the building if he felt inclined to do so. Will he still be returning officer the fees from which, as everyone in the council is aware, are at the root of the pension opt out and what about his gallivanting around Wales? Doesn't he sit on some highfalutin WAG committee up in the capital? If he retains all this he has effectively stitched up poor old Kev who has handed him a constructive dismissal case by intimating in the press release that he is innocent. Isn't that for the police to decide? Confused of LlanelliAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-5072012625428823452014-02-15T10:49:13.132+00:002014-02-15T10:49:13.132+00:00Just read Old Grumpy's blog - and appreciate h...Just read Old Grumpy's blog - and appreciate his analysis of the Pembs meeting.<br />I note "Kerr" is pronounced "Car"? Not "Cur"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118857435900510280.post-32722791897789060542014-02-15T07:48:35.860+00:002014-02-15T07:48:35.860+00:00It seems a perversion of local democracy that a ba...It seems a perversion of local democracy that a barrister from London can come down and push us around like this. is it not possible for someone at the start of the meeting to propose that he be excluded and a vote taken on this proposal.<br /><br />The councillors in Pemba were ambushed yesterday with the brown envelope trick but this is a trick that can only be deployed once and our own councillors wil presumably be taking independent advice.<br /><br />Also is it not strange how the Labour leader in Pembs advocates suspension whilst ournLabour leader does not. where does our own Legal advisor now sit - will she be able to attend the meeting ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com